Also available on Spotify
In the fourth episode of NOTABLE, host Adrienne Beckham (she/her) sits down with Neil McDevitt (he/him) to learn about his journey transitioning a service oriented and community care mindset into leadership at the organizational, board, and political level.
Neil is the Executive Director for the Deaf-Hearing Communication Centre in Swarthmore, PA. DHCC is the largest provider of interpreting services in the Philadelphia region and is also a key provider of advocacy services for communication access for the deaf community in the area as well. Neil joins DHCC after assignments at the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Telecommunications for the Deaf & Hard of Hearing Inc (TDI), and The Leadership Foundry.
Neil is also the Mayor for North Wales Borough in Suburban Philadelphia. In this role, Neil oversees the police department of the Borough and is the elected official who takes charge during the time of an emergency. In Pennsylvania, although the Mayor does not generally vote on legislative matters (except in a tie), they are intensively involved in the activities of Borough Council. He is the first Deaf person to be directly elected to this office in the country.
He graduated from Gallaudet University in 1996 with a degree in Government. He lives in the Borough with his wife, two children, a lizard, and two dogs. As a former volunteer firefighter in suburban Philadelphia, McDevitt was one of a handful of emergency responders in the country who are also profoundly deaf.
Music by Eric Stewart, “Cloud Anthem”
Pop! Pop! Pop! Records / Center For Creative Works
Thanks for support from Pennsylvania Council for the Arts, a state agency funded by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the National Endowment for the Arts.
Transcript
[00:00:00.00] – Adrienne Beckham
In today’s episode of Notable, I am sitting down with Neil McDevitt to learn about his journey transitioning a service-oriented and community care mindset into leadership at the organizational, board, and political level. Come join our conversation.
[00:00:17.14]
What is your favorite book or art piece, form of media right now?
[00:00:33.22] – Neil McDevitt
Probably because I’m in my office currently, I actually have an old print of an old Bloom County cartoon from the comic strip because I’m a political animal myself, it’s an old one. It’s one of the first, actually, strips to show Opus, the Penguin. Basically, it’s a person sitting on a bench, and it’s an older person who’s frustrated with all of those people.
[00:01:19.18]
The next panel, Opus says, “Me, too. Who are they?” Then the old person says, “The left-wingers.” Then you see Opus, the Penguin, flap a wing. You look at it puzzedly. Then the man starts ranting. He says, “I hate them.” Then the next panel, Opus says, “Well, maybe they don’t care for you either as a bird.”
[00:02:00.03]
But basically, it’s a signed piece by the cartoonist himself to me, and that was a birthday present to myself when I became 50. Probably that’s the answer that I can see right in front of me at the moment. Now, on the wall here behind me, I have works by deaf artists. As you can see here behind me, there’s the American flag that’s overlaid with two hands, one white and one black, and the fingers intertwine. It represents this American sign language sign for America.
[00:02:42.22]
Then above me and behind me, these two on the wall, are by a deaf artist. The name of the work is The River of Dreams. Now, I’m a big Billy Joel fan, so I had to buy it. These two other works are from a well-known deaf artist named Chuck Baird. Now, this is just my little shrine to my taste in art. That’s what I have.
[00:03:22.19] – Adrienne Beckham
Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for sharing. I saw the piece with the hands behind you, and I was very curious about it because I was like, “Is that the American flag?” It is. That is really, really beautiful. Gosh, thank you so much for sharing that.
[00:03:45.13]
Well, thank you so much for answering my warm-up question. We shall jump into the main event of today, which is the wonderful, wonderful list of questions that I’ve sent to you in advance, about the topic at hand, which is disability leadership, which is… Oh, my gosh. I’m very, very, very excited to hear your thoughts about this.
[00:04:12.22]
But before we get there, we’ll start with the very first question, which is just, if you can please introduce yourself, your name, pronouns, a quick verbal description, and just a little brief biography about who you are and how you got here.
[00:04:36.18] – Neil McDevitt
Sure. Hi, everyone. My name is Neil McDevitt. My pronouns are he/ him. My visual description is… Well, I often call myself short stocky, so probably that’s a good indicator. I am wearing a blue coat with a white shirt, and I also have dirty blonde hair. When I was younger, it was very blonde, and I’m also wearing glasses. I’m seated in my office, and in my background, I have some paintings. I have a blue wall on one side and a gray wall on the other side.
[00:05:28.18]
Now, my role currently is, I’m the executive director for the Deaf-Hearing Communication Center. It’s a nonprofit organization located in Swarthmore, Pennsylvania. I would say it’s about 15–20 minutes south of Philadelphia.
[00:05:45.24]
I’ve been in that role now for 11 years. I’m also the mayor for my town of North Wales, the borough. I’ve been the mayor there for 2 years now, actually a year and a half. I’m the first deaf person that we know of nationally, in modern times, to be elected directly to that role. My wife and I have been married for 25 plus years. We have two amazing adult sons, and we have two dogs. You may see I have a couple of tails wagging in the picture behind me at some point. We also have a cat, and we have a lizard.
[00:06:39.21] – Adrienne Beckham
Oh, my gosh. I love just how many pets you have. That’s so wonderful. Also, lizards. I don’t see a lot of people who own lizards, and I feel like that’s a shame because when I was growing up, my class in, I think third grade, we had a bearded dragon that lived in the classroom, and he was the coolest thing ever. He would just sit on a rock under his heat lamp. Honestly, that’s the way I would like to live my life sometimes.
[00:07:16.12] – Neil McDevitt
Yeah. That’s what we have, a bearded dragon, too. We’re always amazed because it’s been with us for 12, 13 years. We’re always shocked when we come home from vacation because we have to expect it to be dead when we come in the door. But the thing’s still alive. I don’t know how, but it’s an amazing animal.
[00:07:48.14] – Adrienne Beckham
Oh, my gosh. I’d love to hear about your path to leadership. What called you to become a leader, both at your organization and in your community because being a disabled person, being a deaf person, but being a leader, there are two different things. You don’t necessarily need to be a leader in your community, but you can simply be a part of that community. But you have been called to be a leader, so I’d love to know about the path that got you there and maybe why?
[00:08:32.03] – Neil McDevitt
Well, for me, it’s funny because I never really felt like something called me or something was pulling me into leadership. Now, my parents were always involved in civic engagement, public service things. For example, my mom was on a school board for our community in Northern New Jersey for many years. Then my dad served as a committee member for a youth program in our community. I always had a role model of service, but I never looked at it as leadership, per se in that respect. Because for me, it was always more about the service aspect rather than the leadership role.
[00:09:39.10]
I often say, my journey has just been several happy accidents. There’s a lot of privilege in that, too. There are elements of privilege as a white person, as a deaf person who uses his voice. There are elements of that that you can’t ignore. But I think it’s important to recognize it because it’s there.
[00:10:24.04]
At the same time, many of those accidents, for example, I graduated from Gallaudet University, and I was a student there for 5 years. I was part of the newspaper, and I eventually became editor-in-chief for that student newspaper. At the same time, there was a love of writing. There was a love of the journalistic process, so it made sense to follow that path. It wasn’t like I was planning or had this idea in mind or a vision for myself that that’s what I would do.
[00:11:22.13]
Then after I was editor-in-chief, and that time was over, I then became a PR manager for the student government. But then I became the President of Student Government after the vice president and the president both resigned. It felt there were a lot of those, again, happy accidents along the way that occurred, which gave me some sense of ability It gave me some opportunity to learn and some opportunity to make a lot of mistakes. Then apply those lessons learned.
[00:12:16.17]
Coming into my current role, that was really… Again, it was like there was no plan. I didn’t graduate from Gallaudet University. I mean, I graduated with a degree in government. That was my focus. I was focused on political science, but I never thought that I would run for office.
[00:12:44.21]
What happened was I graduated from Gallaudet University, and I went to work for an insurance company. Basically, pushing papers, typing things and the like. It wasn’t exactly the type of role where you would envision leadership to grow. But I was getting so frustrated as a deaf person in that type of environment. I started looking for constructive ways to get engaged with my community.
[00:13:32.10]
I thought, or rather, I decided to join my local fire company. They encouraged me to become a firefighter. I was one of the few deaf people in the United States who were certified to be an interior firefighter. That opportunity then gave me several other opportunities to expand my knowledge, to expand my circle of mentors, and also throw… I mean, that’s what I mean when I say happy accidents. I never went in with the intention of doing certain things, but I’ve had the opportunities arise as a result of those experiences.
[00:14:38.24] – Adrienne Beckham
I love what you shared about just the idea of service and how that seems to be the backbone of so much of the happy accidents that have happened that brought you into leadership. I think, to me, that’s the quality of a good leader is to be service-oriented in the sense of you are here to serve rather than I’m here to be the big person in charge. I think that is something that is really special. I feel it’s something, too, that maybe is a part of the experience of being disabled in this country.
[00:15:50.23]
Going to what you mentioned and what you shared about how you hadn’t intended on running for office, and it ended up happening. I’d love to hear a little bit about the experience of making that decision of actually accepting it. Is this something that you initiated in yourself, or is it something that other people were like, “Hey, I think you should do this maybe, please.” I’d love to hear a little bit more about that.
[00:16:47.24] – Neil McDevitt
I would love to say it was akin to Pinocchio with the fairy godmother who comes down and says, “You’re chosen for this particular thing.” I mean, that was not the case. Really, it was more external. It was an external prompt. We have to be honest about it.
[00:17:16.13]
Trump was elected in 2016. For me, my conversation with my wife, we were just like, “What do we do? How can we stay sane through this, really?” I was like, I can’t just sit at my computer and type paragraphs of well-reasoned, well-researched manifestos about why this is evil or whatever. But I just realized that in today’s environment, it’s just screaming into the void.
[00:18:21.02]
I felt I needed to do something more. Something more constructive. Something that I’m able to do meaningfully and protect our values, protect our values to civil rights or human rights, things like that. I approached my local political Democratic Party, and I asked them, “I would love to run for something. Is there something I can do?” Maybe not have a clear picture of… I didn’t have a clear picture of what that was per se. They looked at my background.
[00:19:19.11]
They said, “Let’s see, you used to be a firefighter. You used to work for FEMA. You also used to work for a nonprofit focusing on emergency management. Mayor is probably the role that is the best fit for you because a lot of the functions within the state law for mayor of a borough in Pennsylvania focus on emergency management.” So that was the best fit for my skill set and background.
[00:20:02.21]
I ran in 2017 against the incumbent. We ran, let’s see, I lost by five votes. Then we had a rematch in 2021, and I won by eight votes. Honestly, if you’d asked me, “What did you do differently? What was the magic thing that you did to change those three votes, 13 votes, rather, from a loss to a win?” My answer would have been, “I think the demographics of the community changed. As opposed to something myself or the person running against me did.” That was what got me started in the political process, just figuring out that journey.
[00:21:37.16] – Adrienne Beckham
It’s interesting just how much of the progress that happens with accessibility and with disability comes from a response of necessity and this feeling of being put in a situation where you know that you have to because of what’s going on around you. I think, yeah, I think that 2016 was definitely a moment for a lot of us to stop and reevaluate and think about, “What am I actually doing that’s going to be more than just talking into the void.”
[00:23:00.10]
I’m so grateful to hear just your path to taking that experience and optimizing it into something that has provided good for the deaf community and your community beyond, even further outside of that, too. Because we all benefit when… We all benefit when representation is taken a step further because it just opens the doors for more and more and more progress, innovation, things to grow. It’s also interesting, too, to hear that you lost the first time and then came back for the win. I love a good comeback moment. That’s awesome.
[00:24:03.01]
But yeah, and to also just think about how that moment happened as a result, less of what you did, but what was happening around you. That just the ever-flowing nature of what leadership is required in a community, in an organization, in a country. These things aren’t fixed. It’s not like you can just set, “This is what this community will need in perpetuity.” Your journey is a beautiful example of just how fluid the needs of your community can be.
[00:24:52.01]
Thinking about your role as the mayor and thinking about your role at DHCC, how do you approach those roles differently, similarly? What does it take to be the leader of DHCC versus what does it take to lead and be the mayor? Do you approach those things with a similar mindset or a different mindset?
[00:25:29.20] – Neil McDevitt
It really requires a totally different mindset for each because my abilities, my authority, are completely different in those roles. For example, at DHCC, I am the person who runs the day-to-day operations of the organization. I also have a board of directors that I partner with, and we work on certain priorities. I have to have my fingers in basically everything, in every part.
[00:26:07.19]
Now, as mayor, in Pennsylvania, the way the law is written, the mayor of a small borough does not set policy. I do not have the authority to oversee, let’s say, the Public Works Department, mowing lawns, for example. Really, my only authority on a day-to-day basis is just I supervise the police chief. Most of my authority comes during an emergency where we need to be able to announce the emergency, request resources, and the like.
[00:27:04.23]
In other words, I could declare, let’s say, it’s probably a silly example, but I could declare, for example, there are public safety threats because too many people are lining up for ice cream. And I would say that we would then need to shut down the street. Of course, the borough council, the next thing will say that’s silly, and we need to reopen. So I don’t have many areas of authority, for example, that the mayor of Philadelphia, let’s say, has.
[00:27:49.23]
My approach to both of my roles can be very different. As mayor, I really have to rely heavily on collaboration. I have to rely heavily on being part of a team with the council, with the actual staff of the borough who run the day-to-day. In that role, it sounds like I have the authority and the ability to do certain things, but in reality that is not so.
[00:28:32.02]
Now, if I tried to behave the way that I do as an executive director, I probably would be overstepping my authority in that role. Now, as executive director, I have to recognize that my team are the real experts in what they do. It’s not my role to tell them, “No.” My role is to empower them to be able to do what it is they’re already doing well. That’s 95% of my job right there. 4.9% of the time I may be asking questions in order to try to understand something a little better. Then the 0.1% is when I’m saying, “No, we need to pull this.” Or “This is something we need to stop doing.” Or what have you.
[00:29:53.22]
What helps me in both of those capacities is similar. In them, I try to lead by values. What I believe the value of DHCC… What the values of DHCC are, and how the board sets the mission. The staff wrote our own values as well in how we do our work. Now, if a person says, “I made this decision because I believe it serves the mission or the values of the organization,” great. That’s absolutely fine.
[00:30:45.24]
Similarly, what I believe are the values of the small community in suburban Philadelphia. If I believe that we’re all on the same page regarding that topic, then I will work to that end. I think that’s probably the easiest way to describe how I approach my role in both of those organizations, how they’re different, and also how I try to make some similarities between them.
[00:31:25.01] – Adrienne Beckham
I would love your thoughts on your experience working with your board and feel at all to share as much about that experience as you would like. Yeah, just how that has been, how has it been working with your board? If anything surprised you about working with a board for the first time, whether it was in this role or a previous one. Any thoughts on your experience.
[00:32:14.07] – Neil McDevitt
DHCC is a unique type of organization because our bylaws state that the board should be or should have a representation of 51% or more of deaf and hard of hearing people.
[00:32:32.15] – Adrienne Beckham
Good.
[00:32:34.08] – Neil McDevitt
Our board has amazing parts that are very strong on. But we also have challenges as well at the same time. For example, it’s really easy for me to be able, as executive director, to go to a work meeting and have discussion, discuss those challenges with setting up programs to serve the deaf community, or if there are issues that arise regarding interpreters and deaf and hard of hearing people, because they all already experience these things themselves. They all know basically what I’m talking about. So that’s very helpful because sometimes we have some boards where they pull in people from senior leaders at a bank or attorneys, but those folks may not necessarily have the lived experience as a person with a disability. And in our mission and focus for the organization.
[00:34:12.06]
The challenge is sometimes the opposite. There are some parts where that type of board has a lot of people who are attorneys, who are bankers, and they can be very effective at, let’s say, fundraising or providing perspective on business matters, whereas the other board may not be able to get that to the same level. Because it’s not a common experience for deaf and hard of hearing people to be in this field.
[00:34:52.08]
So very often, it’s a trade-off where we have to handle books. We have to either search and find a particular experience that person has and put them on the board. We need to find that person, and then hopefully that person will have lived experience, or for example, we have an attorney who’s on our board. They have siblings who are deaf adults. So this person has some background knowledge. But sometimes that’s not possible. We need to balance it out for ourselves.
[00:35:45.04]
The hard part of being a disability-focused organization with a deaf executive director and a majority deaf board, sometimes we don’t always realize that. We’re in an echo chain where we all have very, very similar experiences. So we don’t always realize there may be something different and outside of our perspectives that perhaps we need to start thinking about.
[00:36:34.24]
That’s… Let me go back to your questions. We do need more people with disabilities on the board and of all different kinds. The biggest challenge that we often see with that is that number 1, we desperately need people with a disability perspective on the board, on the policies and the priorities of the organization.
[00:37:18.08]
At the same time, we also need to do a better job of preparing people to join a board and understand, for example, a board needs to do fundraising. A board can’t just sit by and not do that. I think for a lot of people with disabilities, the challenge sometimes lies in, first of all, historically, we are not a population that donates much because we can’t afford to. At the same time, we often don’t like the idea of asking for help. We’re fiercely proud of our independence, and the idea of asking for help, even though it’s in service of a good thing, is hard for us to do, myself included. That often is a challenge. I think we, as the community, can do better. We can do better to prepare people to become board members and to understand how a nonprofit organization operates.
[00:38:56.19]
Last year, DHCC hosted a Deaf Organization Summit. One of the goals of that summit was to educate people about the critical parts of nonprofit organizations, and the responsibilities of board members.
[00:39:20.15]
For example, we talked about how to rate financial reports. I think our disability community can do a better job there, preparing the next generation for their role as board members.
[00:39:38.24] – Adrienne Beckham
Yeah, absolutely. I think for a lot of disabled people, the idea of what a board of directors does is just shrouded in mystery because it can feel far removed from the daily experience, but it has an effect on the daily experience that you don’t realize unless you’re actually clued into what a board truly does. I’m curious to hear about if the process of recruiting board members and onboarding board members for DHCC, has that process changed over the years? Have you found it getting easier, more difficult?
[00:41:01.24] – Neil McDevitt
Yes and no. For DHCC, I think we’ve given ourselves a little bit more flexibility in terms of looking further away for board members. Currently, our board chair just started their term and then moved to Florida. Now, our previous board chair moved to New York, and we just brought in a new board member from Ohio.
[00:41:50.02]
It’s a little bit easier in some ways because we decided with Zoom and with remote meeting options that we don’t need to limit ourselves to people in the Philadelphia area. That part becomes a little bit easier. Now, the other part that has to do with onboarding, I don’t think we’ve made much of it yet on that because it’s not for lack of trying.
[00:42:39.24]
However, sometimes people with disabilities, they get there with a lot of strikes. That just does short, brief training sessions, which won’t really overcome that. What we do instead is when new board members are onboarded, they do not join a committee for 1 year. We want them to see how the board operates first. We want them to see how meetings are run. We want them to see the scope of the organization in order to get a better sense of what it looks like rather than giving them the expectation on day 1 that you’re going to need to hit the ground running doing these certain things.
[00:43:53.02]
I think that probably is more effective than trying to establish an onboarding process where people need to know certain things coming in. We also have a way that our board typically works with new board members. They’ll start in July, on July first. That follows our fiscal year. But if we’ve identified people who’d be a good board member, we invite them to join meetings to observe. They can’t vote, but they can watch and observe to see how the meetings run and have a better sense of what they’re getting themselves into.
[00:44:45.13] – Adrienne Beckham
Okay, I’m going to ask a question that I personally really love this question, and it’s the culminating question of Notable in this journey, and that is, what do you hope disability leadership looks like in the future?
[00:45:18.12] – Neil McDevitt
My goal is to see more people with disabilities in leadership roles for organizations that do not have deaf or disabled in the team. In other words, they are the CEO of what have you, Chase Bank. That sort of thing. The challenge that I see sometimes, and I don’t know if this is a self-limiting thing or if this is an internal response to an external pressure.
[00:46:11.17]
But we celebrate so much the expectation that an organization provides services for people with disabilities, and they should be led by people with disabilities, which makes sense. But at the same time, the fact that I’m the first deaf person to be elected mayor in the year 2021, and the only person thus far, out of how many millions of deaf people in the United States.
[00:47:02.04]
We as a group, as a community, need to do a better job of putting ourselves in those roles. Because I feel like sometimes we look up to the disability organizations and the schools of the deaf and other entities, but our skill sets are so much better than that. I would love to see more disability leadership in organizations that have nothing to do with disability.
[00:47:43.10] – Adrienne Beckham
In your opinion, how close do you think we are to that future?
[00:47:55.21] – Neil McDevitt
I think it will be closer if we become more intentional about the pipeline of skills, of talents, of knowledge. If we become more intentional about mentorship and mentoring the next leaders. Right now, with full transparency, I’ve worked in my job now for 11 years. We see a lot of people with disabilities in leadership positions who stay for 10, 15, 20, 30 years even. They’re not doing a very good job of preparing those coming behind them for their job or for other jobs or for other opportunities.
[00:49:07.20]
It means, and I need to try making sure that people who work under me, that I’m always explaining to them why I make these decisions the way that I do, what my thought process is behind it. Again, it all goes back to values. What are the values that I personally have for the organization? What are my values for how I do the job.
[00:49:32.03]
Also, my hope is that if I can share enough of that with others, they will then be able to take that and go somewhere else and lead in their way. But we will struggle if we are not being thoughtful about leadership, if we’re not being intentional about the development of the next generation of leaders.
[00:50:18.24] – Adrienne Beckham
It’s this concept of outside of the disability community, there’s maybe this generational wealth of knowledge that gets passed down about how to make these connections and how to break into industries and these networking opportunities and abilities to connect, a lot of that exists. There’s framework, there’s infrastructure that exists for people in particular communities, people that look a particular way, people that are from a particular area that aren’t available to people outside of that particular group.
[00:51:20.24]
What does it look like to create that kind of infrastructure for disabled people, or for deaf people and other identities, too, because all of this is intersectional? What does building that infrastructure look like as we move into the future? But I really appreciate your thoughts there because that’s ultimately the goal of Notable is to try and explore this idea of what does our community need in order to step into these roles so that we can refashion the table of leadership into one that is accepting and open and useful for not just one particular group of individuals, for the whole, for the collective.
[00:52:33.24]
Thank you so much for answering my favorite question. I’ll just open the floor for if there are any final thoughts that you have. Are there things that you wanted to share today that maybe I didn’t get a chance to tee up for you. If there’s any thoughts that you have that you want to share, I’d love to hear them.
[00:53:02.12] – Neil McDevitt
Yes. I touched on this a little bit, my answer to your favorite question. The value of mentorship and mentors is so critical in so many parts of my leadership journey. I’ve had examples of bad leadership where their leadership style was more based on fear rather than trusting my experience and my knowledge. I’ve also had amazing mentors who were able to show me what leadership really looks like.
[00:53:58.12]
One of my favorite examples was a woman named Marcie Roth. She’s the CEO now for the World Institute on Disabilities. But she was my manager when I worked at FEMA. The Federal Emergency Management Agency. She was the one who showed me the value of leading by values because we worked in this huge federal bureaucracy, where it felt almost impossible to do anything.
[00:54:41.21]
It felt impossible to make decisions without having someone sign off on it three times, and then have three other managers sign in the triplicate. Her model, for me, was leading by values. It’s a great way to be able to give ourselves space in an environment that maybe doesn’t always value giving that space.
[00:55:17.05]
Another mentor of mine, who’s a deaf gentleman by the name of Claude Stout. He was the executive director for Telecommunications for the Deaf and Hard-of-hearing, Incorporated, which we call at TDI. He showed me that vulnerability is a good trait to have in leadership, where we had an incident at work where he shared with his team how his abilities had changed in what he could do after having a heart-related incident and how staff could support him.
[00:56:14.13]
Now, up until that time, most of my leadership experience was someone telling me what to do and listing out my responsibilities. It was a toxic masculinity environment at work. I realized that vulnerability is an important part of leadership. You have to acknowledge your wrongs. You also have to acknowledge when you’re burnt out. You need to acknowledge when, let’s say, the world is against you.
[00:56:59.21]
Maybe you’re not having a good day that day. You need to ask your team for help, or at least ask them for understanding and grace. That’s something that my mentors have instilled in me. Again, it all goes back to intentionality and trying to make myself available as a mentor for as many people as I can. It doesn’t even have to be a formal relationship. It’s not something that we need to sign some paperwork on as an agreement, but it’s basically something that we need to give an intention in my own ways. In order to move the needle forward.
[00:57:57.22] – Adrienne Beckham
What a way to end. Thank you so much for that. Yeah, vulnerability is so important and so overlooked in the work that we do in our day-to-day lives. Honestly, just all around, just being able to stand or just be honest about where you are in your body, in your mind that day, and show up and say that to another human being. We forget just how much strength there is in that. In being able to do that. Yeah. Gosh, such a beautiful way to end this conversation. Your mentor is so right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for that.
[00:59:10.03] – Neil McDevitt
You’re welcome.
[00:59:11.00] – Adrienne Beckham
Okay. Well, I think we did it, Neil. A full interview.
[00:59:20.03] – Neil McDevitt
Great.
[00:59:21.03] – Adrienne Beckham
Thank you. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you both of our wonderful interpreters today. Thank you so much for being here as well. Enjoy your day.
