In the second episode of NOTABLE, host Adrienne Beckham (she/her) talks with Bailey Gamberg (they/them), about their experience navigating self-identifying in the workplace and advocating for themselves and others to leadership as a person with a disability.
Bailey M. Gamberg (they/them) is an emerging leader and museum educator in the Greater Philadelphia Area. Currently in their role as Educator of Adult and Community Programs at the Brandywine Museum of Art, Bailey develops creative, accessible programming for adult and family audiences in collaboration with community partners. Some of their favorite programs to plan include Sensory-Friendly Access Hours and Plein Air painting workshops. They also serve on the Programming Committee for the professional networking group, Museum Council of Greater Philadelphia. In their free time, Bailey enjoys soaking up the sun with their dog, painting thrifted objects, and reading autobiographies.
Thanks for support from Pennsylvania Council for the Arts, a state agency funded by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the National Endowment for the Arts.
Also Available on Spotify
Transcript
[00:00:00.12] – Adrienne Beckham
In today’s episode of Notable, I am talking to Bailey Gamberg, an individual on the road to board leadership who discussed their journey with me, exploring their disability identity, and advocating for themselves and others to leadership as a person currently outside of the traditional board and executive leadership structure. Come join our conversation.
[00:00:22.17] – Adrienne Beckham
What is your favorite movie, or book, or song of the moment right now?
[00:00:35.16] – Bailey Gamberg
I don’t know if… Favorite is tough. That’s hard to note down. But something I’ve been liking that I’ve been reading recently is, right now, I’m in the middle of a book called The Story of Art Without Men. It is basically a look at our history as a broad scale, but going back to Renaissance and Ancient China and these old, centuries-ago art movements that are almost primarily tied to male artists, and looking at some of the women that were part of those movements or contributors as well. There’s more and more as you get into the 1900s and contemporary art and stuff. But it’s really interesting because it doesn’t talk about any of those male artists at all, and just focuses on the women and their contributions to the movement.
[00:01:29.07] – Bailey Gamberg
That’s been really cool to read. I try and read a nonfiction book that I’m interested in and a fiction book, because I do like to just get lost in a little fantasy world or something like that, too. But I like reading nonfiction and learning stuff that I actively want to learn more about.
[00:01:50.12] – Adrienne Beckham
Yeah. That’s such an interesting idea to think about. Reteaching art, excluding all of the big… If I have to hear about Michelangelo, or da Vinci, or any of the big… Not da Vinci. Who am I thinking of? Anyway, any of the big names that people picture of when they think about art, or science, or whatever. I’m going to scream. It’s just not nearly as interesting as all of the people that never ever got their stories told.
[00:02:37.08] – Bailey Gamberg
Yeah. Exactly. No. I totally agree. We’ve all heard about those other guys. I want to learn something new. My name is Bailey Gamberg, and I identify as nonbinary and use they/them pronouns. I have white skin, short, dark brown hair, a little nose ring. Today, I’ve got on some little dangly earrings, a black-and-white shirt, and a green cardigan. I am in my home office right now, which has my collection of art postcards behind me. I put them up on cork boards and make them like these collage-y pieces. That’s part of my space.
[00:03:21.03] – Bailey Gamberg
I’m currently the educator of Adult and Community Programs at the Brandywine Museum of Art. There, I work on programs for adult audiences, working with our community and accessibility as well. But I’m not from the Philly area. I originally grew up in Las Vegas, Nevada, and then attended undergrad in Reno, Nevada at the University of Nevada, Reno for English writing and history. I was a big book nerd growing up and thought I just wanted to keep doing English stuff. Then, I took a museum studies class in history and learned that that was a field that you could go into, and that was something that was interesting to me, and did a couple of internships. I was asked a lot if I wanted to be a classroom teacher as the English and history major. I knew that’s not what I wanted to do, but I liked education and I liked learning, but I didn’t like the idea of being in a classroom every day with the same students.
[00:04:23.05] – Bailey Gamberg
I decided that I wanted to get my master’s in museum studies or museum education, and I ended up going to University of the Arts and moving to Philadelphia in 2018 for their master’s in museum education program. I moved cross-country to the city, didn’t know anybody. Since then, I have been making my way through different internships, and then different jobs at a variety of museums throughout Philadelphia, from really small places to really big places, too.
[00:04:55.21] – Bailey Gamberg
In my free time, I enjoy reading a lot, still. I paint, and sketch, and draw, and collage on the side. I like to dabble in different creative things, line of cuts sometimes. I’m a big dog lover. I have a little senior rescue dog. I like taking her to the park and going on nature walks and stuff.
[00:05:18.19] – Adrienne Beckham
I have so many questions about your dog now, but that might be an after-interview question. Thank you for all of that information. It’s interesting because we know each other, but there’s still much about your background that I don’t know. It’s nice to get to hear it from your words and delve a little more into getting to know who you are as a human.
[00:05:58.03] – Adrienne Beckham
There’s a few things that I want to touch on, but before we get there, I want to ask if you would feel comfortable talking a little bit more about your disability and your experience as a person with a disability, growing up with a disability, and navigating your experience. You moved from one side of the country, all the way to another, as a person with a disability. I know my own experience doing that. I’m originally from California. I’d love to hear about your experience.
[00:06:46.20] – Bailey Gamberg
I identify as having… I have been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder and also phobic anxiety disorder. I just say anxiety generally. It was something that I was diagnosed with my senior year in high school. It was something that really came to prominence in my life when I was a senior, which was also during… I was moving to Reno to go to undergrad at that point in time, on the other end of the state. Not as far, but still a big change. There was something that happened, and I started having anxiety attacks, anywhere from 2–3 times a day, to up to 12–15 times a day. It was exhausting and really became a facet of everyday part of my life. I started realizing that this was something that wasn’t stable for me, and I needed to try and find some courses of action to try and help with that. I started going to therapy, and did that for a couple of years, moved into college doing that.
[00:07:56.16] – Bailey Gamberg
I remember my freshman year of college, I was really dealing with it and missing a lot of events. I wanted to go to social clubs and do all the new extracurriculars on campus, and stuff like that. Because I was dealing with a bunch of panic attacks, I’m trying to mitigate that and making sure I was keeping up with my classes and things.
[00:08:20.03] – Bailey Gamberg
After a couple of years, I decided I needed to go on to medication to try and mitigate it more. I started looking into psychiatry and figuring that out, and thankfully, was able to find some medications that worked for me, moving that rate down—from at least a handful of panic attacks a day, if not upwards of 10, to having them a couple of times a month, having them every two or three weeks, or when something very specific scenario, a very specific trigger came up rather than just sitting in class and all of a sudden feeling like the world is going… Everything’s crashing down in a sense, even though there’s no external stimuli that are causing that. Getting on medication truly changed the game for me, and I’m able to be more productive and to be a better person now. I don’t know if I would have been able to move across the country, I think, if you hadn’t found the medication and the path that I’m working on to do so.
[00:09:29.08] – Bailey Gamberg
Yeah, moving across the country, I didn’t know anybody in Philadelphia. For me, I tried to take it on the positive spin as a fresh start. There were things I feel like I wanted to leave in Nevada behind and that I wanted to make really new for myself, someone that was finding my sexuality and my gender identity, and wanting to just start over in that sense. I feel like that took away some of the fear for me. I also feel like going into a graduate school program, I had some social capacity and the people I was taking classes with. I’m sure many of us relate. As an adult, making friends is hard.
[00:10:08.20] – Adrienne Beckham
So hard.
[00:10:10.06] – Bailey Gamberg
Compared to when you’re in school, you’re meeting your friends in your classes. You’re meeting people in clubs and extracurriculars. As an adult, it’s like you see the people you work with, and the people you live with, and everyone else you have to make the effort to see. I had, thankfully, graduate school and a couple of different part-time jobs that I was doing to give me a social base in Philly and a support group to start with. I was also really grateful at the time, I had an aunt and uncle living in New Jersey, and I was able to see them. They’re my only family on the East Coast, but I was able to be with, visit them, and have some sort of family support and understanding there, which was really helpful for me.
[00:10:59.19] – Adrienne Beckham
Yeah. Definitely. Oh, my gosh. I relate to so much of what you said. I think what you hit on, too, is just the difficulty making friends, particularly if you’re someone with a disability, too. It’s not only just trying to navigate the feeling, the social interactions that are present, regardless of identity, but then also navigating your own access needs, and being able to communicate that to people you’re hoping to make friends with and navigating that experience of like, “How is this going to be received? Am I going to feel safe opening up to this person about my identity, and what have you?” That just was like at this added layer of nuance that gets added to being a person with a disability, trying to make friends, and trying to start your life, particularly starting over in a fresh start. But I love your perspective on it. The ability to see it as a fresh start of… I have the opportunity to make a new life, and show up the way that I want to show up.
[00:12:36.20] – Adrienne Beckham
I think that is huge.
[00:12:40.23] – Bailey Gamberg
The pandemic has added to that, too. I actually feel like I didn’t deal with a lot of social anxiety components before the pandemic. I was mostly focused on “just in my head” kind of things when things happen. Also, my phobia that I deal with, it’s gross, but it’s when people get sick, or throwing up being sick. At its worst, if someone burps or coughs or something, my brain starts to think, “Oh, my gosh, they’re going to get sick.” Or if I start to feel nauseous, which again is a symptom of sometimes when you’re anxious, you start to get sweaty and nauseous and stuff, my brain starts to think like, “Oh, no. I’m going to be sick.”
[00:13:28.21] – Bailey Gamberg
For me, that’s a lot of what I deal with, and what the medication has helped me not think about that every single moment of every day, just when it’s actually happening maybe, which is rare. But the pandemic has, I feel like, added a layer for me of social anxiety that I didn’t deal with before. It was mostly all revolved around the phobia. But it’s becoming more generalized, I think, for me, just in a capacity that for so long, we weren’t around crowds and around a lot of other people, that changed the game for me, and just my social battery capacity, and what I’m able to go to. I’m still masking and stuff, but not even thinking about it in the germ way. Instead of being around other people, and being in loud spaces, and being packed like sardines somewhere, it doesn’t appeal to me anymore at all.
[00:14:24.06] – Adrienne Beckham
In this world where the pandemic is not really over, but people are, in this world post-2020, how has your relationship to your access needs and the way you advocate for them changed?
[00:14:49.08] – Bailey Gamberg
I feel like just the fact that we are remote and a work-from-home world has given me more access capacity than I had before and so many other people, too. I didn’t know that asking for work-from-home days was something I genuinely truly needed, because there’s definitely… I have to take off. I have to use PTO if I wake up, and I have an anxiety attack in the morning, and I feel like I truly can’t be my best self and be presentable at work. But now you can use a work-from-home day. Yeah, I can still answer e-mails, and work on some of my writing and my projects. Doing the hour of commute, and being presentable, and being in person with everybody is something I’m not able to accomplish that day. The flexibility that our world allows now in post-2020 has been huge for me. I think you’re also in the capacity of accessible programming and stuff, too. To be able to do online talks and things is nice.
[00:16:02.18] – Adrienne Beckham
How has leadership at whether any of the organizations that you’ve worked for, how they’ve been receptive to those requests in your access?
[00:16:25.04] – Bailey Gamberg
I think it’s tough. I think there’s a little bit of resistance. I think a lot of people want to go… I don’t know how many people, but some people want to go back to all in-person. I think some people really think about productivity and the full 9-5 office hours. For me, that’s not a work style that’s compatible for myself anymore. I think we’ve all seen organization slowly bringing back in-person. We were all remote for a while, and then it became let’s do one day where we’re back in, or let’s stagger the days so not everybody’s all in together, like two days and then three days. Currently, I’m on a three-day in-person and two-day work-from-home schedule. That works really well for me, along with additional discretionary days that we can use as is if things pop up.
[00:17:19.19] – Bailey Gamberg
I remember earlier in the pandemic, maybe in 2022, when the holiday surges were happening, one of the places I was at was asking people to come back in for three or four days in January, right after the surge was happening. I reached out to HR and e-mailed, and e-mailed a director, and was like, “I really don’t think this is the best time for everybody to be coming back on-site as the office team.” Yeah, there’s people who have to be there on-site as visitor services. There’s some jobs that, unfortunately, you can’t work from home. I’m lucky to be in a position that I do work, that I can do a lot of computer stuff.
[00:18:03.12] – Bailey Gamberg
I feel like bringing even more people into the building is not helping those staff who do have to be there. We’re eating in their break rooms. We’re walking in their hallways and using their bathrooms. I was disgruntled by some of that. I definitely am not in a place where I want to go back full-time. In my current job, and in looking at future job opportunities, that’s a requirement for me now to have a hybrid schedule, whatever that might entail. Because I really use a lot of PTO in the past, trying to mitigate that stuff, and I want to be able to save PTO for vacation time, actual time that you want to be off fully and rest.
[00:18:45.17] – Adrienne Beckham
I feel like this is the great reckoning that is happening amongst every single organization right now as we’re navigating this, this experience where we’re all waking up to the humanity of people, rather than just viewing the productivity of people.
[00:19:16.17] – Bailey Gamberg
Yeah. We’re not just cogs in the machine.
[00:19:20.09] – Adrienne Beckham
Exactly. It’s like, oh, wow. Isn’t it wild to think about the fact that I’m a human being who sometimes their body just needs rest, and that’s how you’re going to actually get me to be productive is by respecting and honoring those needs. Yeah, truly wild.
[00:19:43.04] – Bailey Gamberg
Yeah. A 100%. The difference between me and going… if I have an anxiety attack in the morning and still go into work, I’m pretty burnt out the rest of the day. It takes the toll on you. I’m there physically, but how much am I there mentally, versus if I’m able to rest in a space that’s comfortable to me—not use the time commuting, being able to take the time to make yourself some food, rest in a comfortable spot—while you’re still on your computer, answering your e-mails and working on your project management stuff?
[00:19:53.01] – Adrienne Beckham
How do you think people in leadership navigate that feedback from staff and translate it into policy? Is that an experience that you’ve been a part of?
[00:20:38.11] – Bailey Gamberg
I have not been a part of an experience where I’ve been able to directly change policy because of that. I feel like there’s many scenarios where I’m one of the only person speaking out or people speaking out. Even though there may be people that I’m talking to wherever, in the break room, that they’re like, “I don’t feel that this is right,” or, “This is what that I want to do.” But it can be scary to send that e-mail and be like, “Hey, this is how I feel. But here’s my feedback on this,” or to go in your one-on-one, and be like, “Hey, this is how I actually feel about this situation.”
[00:21:20.24] – Bailey Gamberg
I think there might have been scenarios that if I was able to get some more people together to provide their feedback. As the one person giving feedback, it’s hard to make a policy change in that sense. I think you need to garner a little more support so that it’s seen as a more widespread issue across your institution, rather than just a singular complaint. Which is why I think, with having a disability, you can feel that way if you’re the only person in your institution who sees this as access compromise, and as something that is supporting your needs. I think work-from-home days are like a… I don’t know if universal design is the right word, but they benefit everybody in that sense. Even if you don’t have a disability, it’s nice to change your laundry on your break and make your own lunch at home.
[00:22:13.23] – Adrienne Beckham
What do you think the differences could be amongst leadership, receptiveness to those things in the arts industry versus others?
[00:22:26.23] – Bailey Gamberg
Yeah, I’ve not worked at a science place, but I’ve worked at art and history institutions. I feel like art institutions can, in some way, be a little more accepting. Something about working with art, and to me, art in itself is queerness, and freedom, and creativity. Art is really life changing and impactful in our true lived experience in many capacities. History is, too, but I feel like there’s a broader movement in art spaces to share more experiences, to share more artists of color, and with disabilities, and of different identities. I feel like there’s so many artists today that identify as such that you can display their artwork and talk about it, that there are some more of these conversations, I think, happening in art spaces sometimes.
[00:23:28.03] – Bailey Gamberg
History spaces are trying to share more stories of people of color and stuff. But for them, there’s so much that has been erased and so much that has not been recorded that it’s difficult for them to sometimes find enough information, or artifacts and objects on stories, to want to display them. I think our spaces are just being more open and having conversations lately, that I think they’re a little more, I guess, up-to-date with what people are talking about, and what people are seeking in non-profit and arts and culture spaces. What they’re seeking is themselves. They want to see reflections of themselves, in their own lives and their own experiences. You’ve got to bring a broadness and a diversity to that if you want enough people to relate to your exhibitions.
[00:24:22.04] – Adrienne Beckham
I wonder if you could speak on any experiences you’ve had where you’ve been at organizations with leadership that has representation of your identities and how that experience has been, if you’ve had that experience, or if you haven’t, I’d love to hear about that experience as well.
[00:24:47.19] – Bailey Gamberg
Yeah. The whole thing right now is neurodiversity being talked about more, it being seen as a disability in its own status. It’s a privilege that it’s an invisible disability in itself, that I’m able to navigate the world, and have nobody know unless I want people to know. In that sense, I navigate a lot of my work life without people knowing. I feel like I only end up… This is the first public platform I’m actually really talking about my anxiety, and how it’s affected my life. I obviously tell close friends, with people that are in my personal life, but it’s not something that I really like to talk about in the workspace, because I’m afraid of getting shamed for it, or people not caring, or people thinking that I’m trying to milk attention, or need extra stuff for it, or something like that.
[00:25:55.16] – Bailey Gamberg
I really try and not talk about it in a lot of spaces, and that’s something that I actively want to start changing because of thinking about representation. I don’t know if there’s anybody who end in the board spaces identify as neurodivergent, or deal with anxiety. I’m sure that there’s so many people that do, that I’m sure there are. Maybe they hide it, too, or they don’t like to talk about it publicly because it’s due to something negative, and it’s something that can be a hindrance to your work or your credibility or something.
[00:26:32.24] – Bailey Gamberg
But I want to change that. I want to be in… I’m not on any boards, currently, but I’m running for the programming chair position on the Museum Council of Greater Philadelphia Board, which is a professional networking group. We do a ton of social stuff and bringing people together for behind-the-scenes tours and to explore different Philly spaces. I’ve been on the programming committee there now for 2 years, which has been fun. That’s my first, hopefully, breach into a board, a nonprofit space. Yeah, I want to be someone that it’s known that this is a part of my life.
[00:27:16.10] – Adrienne Beckham
It’s scary to be able and say, “Yeah. This is who I am. This is all of who I am,” because of just the way that disability and neurodiversity gets received in this world. Thank you. I’ll say this 1,000 times to you, but thank you so much for being a part of this.
[00:27:43.18] – Bailey Gamberg
Well, thank you for… I’m going to tear up, but thank you for giving me the space to do it. I feel like sometimes that’s all that it takes is being asked the question or being given the opportunity to speak. I feel this way about my gender identity as well. I didn’t start using they/them pronouns and being my actual self in the workspace until some day somebody asked me, “What pronouns do you want on your badge?” At a new place, they’re printing badges for people. I was like, “My pronouns are they/them, actually.” From that moment on, it just came out, and I started putting in my e-mail and letting people know while wearing a little button on my lanyard and stuff like that. But it was just a question I had actually never been asked before in my life in the workspace. Yeah, I think it’s important to ask questions like that. Even if people’s answers are, “No. I don’t have a disability,” or “I’m cis.
[00:28:44.24] – Bailey Gamberg
My pronouns are she/her,” or whatever it may be. You don’t know whose answer is different, and that’s the first time they’ve been asked to share. They might give the truth.
[00:28:54.22] – Adrienne Beckham
From your perspective, because I think the concept of a board of directors is something that not every person fully understands and knows about, particularly if you’re a person from maybe a marginalized community. I know myself, I had no idea what a board of directors did until I started this job. I’m curious to know about your experience learning about what a board even is and how much you know about in your own words what does a board of directors, what role do they play in an organization?
[00:29:49.06] – Bailey Gamberg
I started getting introduced to boards a little bit when I did my first history internship back in Nevada. I worked at a half… It was half an art center, but also in a historic mansion. It was half-historic house, half-art classes. I didn’t really interact with the board, but I heard my boss talk about them. You start learning that what it is a little bit. Then I went to grad school and learned a little bit more from a grant writing and development and museum history perspective. We didn’t go too deeply into… It’s not the most important skill when you’re getting right into the field to learn how to be on a board like there was other. I’d rather learn how to be an educator and a program planner.
[00:30:37.10] – Bailey Gamberg
But I think my first interaction with the board actually was at an internship at Fireman’s Hall Museum when I was in grad school. I was lucky to have a paid internship. There was a little stipend opportunity with it. Because of that, they wanted me to present to the board some of the projects that I’ve done, because the board had raised money for me to do that internship. I was lucky that my first experience was at a really small museum, because I feel like it was a more comfortable board experience. I think everyone was a little more laid back.
[00:31:14.06] – Bailey Gamberg
Fireman’s Hall Museum also has a really direct relationship with Philadelphia’s Fire Department. A lot of the people on the board are retired firefighters and stuff. They really care about the collection of the museum and continuing to share their story. My projects were working on these resources for fire prevention safeties, and teaching about not just stop, drop, and roll, but some other things to learn about, checking smoke detectors and other stuff. They were really excited to hear about these new things I developed that was pushing fire safety forward for teachers. That was a really positive experience, and I’m glad that was my first one. And so far, really, my only one.
[00:32:03.13] – Bailey Gamberg
In the positions that I’ve been at museums, I haven’t had a lot of board interfacing. It’s something that I submit reports and I submit pictures and numbers, but I’m not really the one who presents them, or I’m not the one who does the face time with the board. But in my experience, I feel like there’s two different types of boards, and maybe there’s some mixing in between. But I feel like there’s the type of boards… They all volunteer, but I feel like there’s the type of boards that are formed because you’re seeking financial resources—and you want people on your board that have a lot of money that they’re able to donate and to use connections to find more donations for your organization.
[00:32:47.19] – Bailey Gamberg
Then I think there’s boards that don’t focus on that finance goal, and focus more on representation and a wide range of experience, I guess. As someone who does not have a lot of inheritance or something to give out, that’s the board opportunities that I am seeking, places that are looking at my experience and expertise as something that I’m contributing rather than dollars. You can do both of two, of course. That’s where it’s like, everything’s on a spectrum, but I see board as on a spectrum. Those are your two. You’re looking at funds. You’re looking at experience. You’re looking at connections as different things that someone can give to an organization, and volunteer in a place on a board. For example, with the Museum Council, I’m hoping to bring some of my programming experience and some of my connections with other educators and programmers to the table to be able to support more social and networking events for them.
[00:33:57.05] – Adrienne Beckham
As somebody who works within an organization, is interfacing more directly with the board something that you would like more of? Is that something you think boards should do? What’s your idea on that?
[00:34:17.15] – Bailey Gamberg
Oh, yeah. I think, absolutely. I get, obviously, that if you’re on a board, you’re volunteering for that. That’s not your full-time situation. I get that if you’re on a board, you’re busy. But, I wish there were just more invitations to meetings. I wish there was a little bit more of that transparency and communication even if there’s no time for me to sit and shake hands with everybody at the table. I wish I knew their names and their perspectives on life a little bit more. I feel like if you’re in those meeting spaces and hearing what they’re saying, even if you don’t build a direct relationship with them, you’re learning more about what their thoughts are and I think it would be a good professional development opportunity.
[00:35:06.07] – Bailey Gamberg
But I get that sometimes, they don’t want too many people in the room. I get that there’s sometimes decision… Well, there’s decisions they don’t want shared with the entire organization yet in some types of those meetings. But I think sometimes, and this is the part where I’m iffy on, and I feel like virtually, you can have a lot of people in a space without feeling like it’s too many people in the room situation. I get it for all-in person, and there’s 30 people sitting—and watching and not contributing to the meeting, because they’re just listening—can feel weird. But I feel like in a Zoom, an online capacity, it’s a lot easier to have just bystanders in the meeting, who just want to learn information and absorb.
[00:35:51.18] – Adrienne Beckham
Yeah. Definitely. I think you hit on something that’s really the professional development side of nurturing your staff in that way by having that connection to the board, I think, is something that… I don’t know if it gets talked about really when it comes to conversations about the board because I think you painted that picture very well of the different types of boards versus the financially driven board versus the experiential board. That professional development piece gets maybe lost in the shuffle a little bit.
[00:36:53.11] – Bailey Gamberg
Yeah. I feel like professional development, like conferences and workshops and talks are our go-tos. It’s like, okay, you butt in. There’s so much professional development I think can happen that doesn’t have a monetary cost. There’s lots of things that you got to sign up for because you need to pay honorariums for the people that are talking in different things. But I think examples of getting to look at budgets, or being in the room when it’s an extra invitation, can be really helpful.
[00:37:27.00] – Adrienne Beckham
Yeah. That makes me wonder in your experience as a person with a disability trying to navigate your own professional development. What has that experience been like balancing your access needs, your identity, and also trying to further your career to step into a more leadership role?
[00:38:15.03] – Bailey Gamberg
Yeah. I’m actually really lucky. My first in person conference was the LEED Conference that we went to in the summer, just to the timing of the pandemic and when I… For context, I finished graduate school December 2019. So right before the pandemic hit. I was working full time at the Museum of the American Revolution, so I was doing some full time work in those months between before it started and also in the fall.
[00:38:44.23] – Bailey Gamberg
But just how the timing worked out… Actually, I think I went to the first in-person LEED Conference, the one at the Friends Center. But that was a smaller scale though, compared to LEED for sure, because it was just Philly folks rather than all over the country. But, anyways, LEED was the first big in-person one I’d gone to in a while, and I was so grateful for it because it was just such a comfortable space.
[00:39:10.21] – Bailey Gamberg
At the beginning of every session, they had their captions and interpreters and stuff, but I love that they were always like, “Sit on floor if you need to, pace the room if you need to, do whatever you need to be comfy and listen to this talk.” It’s hard for me to sit on a chair at a table, with my laptop in front of me for the whole day. I did go sit down, and sit up against the wall on some of them, or sit crisscross on the floor. I love sitting on the floor. So that’s something…
[00:39:42.19] – Adrienne Beckham
Like me.
[00:39:42.18] – Bailey Gamberg
Yeah, exactly. You’re in prime, comfy spot right now.
[00:39:46.18] – Adrienne Beckham
Yes.
[00:39:47.19] – Bailey Gamberg
I love it. Being able to be invited to do that every time, I’m not going to be able to do that and feel comfy in other conferences. I’m not going to go to. I’m going to sit on the table the whole time. I was really glad to have that experience, the quiet rooms and stuff where you kind of decompress, because there’s a lot of people there. I mean, I’m glad there was a lot of people there and to learn to network, but it was overwhelming for sure, and I was tired after. I think also staying in the same hotel as the conference event was key for me there, and being able to take some breaks and go back to my own space and decompress for half an hour between sessions was nice.
[00:51:56.04] – Adrienne Beckham
What you’re highlighting is the professional development, and preparing you for a leadership position looks different if you’re a person with disability. I think there is a particular track for professional development that gets taught in sort of larger context of like, “You go to networking events, join these networks and groups of people, host all these things, and you have these conversations with people,” and I think that implies a level of ability, a certain way of thinking, your way of being, that maybe isn’t accessible to a lot of different people. It’s this question of how do we create spaces for professional development for people with disabilities so that we can fill leadership roles and approach leadership in a new way?
[00:51:57.09] – Bailey Gamberg
Yeah, networking events being a staple of… Obviously, connections are important and making those connections, but its difficult having a disability with those networking events for me. Sometimes, I have an event planned, it’s on my calendar, I’m excited for it and I want to go, and then I have an anxiety attack that day. All of a sudden, this sounds now like the worst thing I can possibly do today, when 24 hours before, I was texting my friend, being like, “I can’t wait to see you tomorrow, talk, and grab drinks at this museum.” It definitely sucks when it comes to moments like that, where you feel like you can’t, or you don’t want to do something anymore, and then you gain some fear of that, too.
[00:51:58.09] – Bailey Gamberg
For me, anxiety really is cyclical. It’s a big, vicious cycle. I’m like, “Oh, man. Next time, am I going to flake?” I don’t want to keep being this person who flakes on stuff. This is going to happen, and it probably will, but yeah, networking events are tough for me. I like the concept of them, but in practice, it doesn’t always happen for me. I’d say, I end up 50% of the time, I’m like, “Okay, I can do this, I can go and be like my best self out of the networking event.”
[00:51:58.14] – Adrienne Beckham
I totally feel that. It really does like… It really is about how the event is crafted, too. I think there is so much that can go into the design of the event, and the prep, and preparing materials for the event. So much of that can be designed in a way that won’t mitigate every single challenge or question that enters the mind. It’s not going to be able to change everything, but it can lower the lift or entry in ways that make it a bit more open for different people. That is huge.
[00:51:59.19] – Bailey Gamberg
Absolutely. I think pre-visit materials are huge for universal design component that help a lot of people of a variety of different abilities, and what’s to be expected. What’s going to be on the menu? What’s the seating situation’s going to be like? I don’t need a 360-scan of the entire venue, but I think some of that comes down to planning and preparation. I’m a program planner, I do last-minute stuff sometimes, too. I get it. Something’s wrong on the fly, but as you put on your event page, or on your ticket page, and your reminder email in advance, I think it’s a critical component that isn’t a monetary lift at all, it’s just the time lift and an energy lift.
[00:52:02.04] – Adrienne Beckham
I’m curious if you’ve found any particular networking or professional development opportunities? You mentioned lead, but any others that may support you and your identity as a person with disabilities, and other identities. What professional development and what leadership development opportunities have you tapped into that have been there to support you, and how has that made a difference?
[00:52:03.09] – Bailey Gamberg
The other group… I mean, Museum Council is supportive of me, just because I have so many friends now in this group, so even though I’m not… I mean the organization, and hopefully as a programming chair, I want to improve some accessibility of the organization. But just being in this space where a lot of my close friends are also there, that itself is a comfort for me. I feel like a lot of people there know that I have anxiety, because I am friends with them also in my personal life, as personal and professional relationships with these people.
[00:52:04.09] – Bailey Gamberg
Another space that I’ve found comforting is, there’s a group called TransWork, as part of the Independence Business Alliance. It’s through the Philly Chamber of Commerce, or something like that. It’s like a group, and they do different social and networking events, and also panels and stuff. They did a fashion show at William Way. That’s been a cool space, too. I’ve been to a formal dining kind of place, but everyone’s queer, so they’re wearing super fun. It’s not a big, stuffy, black-tie kind of event. Those have been fun to go to. I haven’t made a ton of friends in those spaces yet, but just being in the space where you know people are going to like you and that they’re gender-nonconforming is kind of nice. That’s been a cool opportunity. I’ve just started going to their events within the last couple of months or so, so they’re new on my radar, but definitely interested in looking. They look at non-profit and corporate, they are trans-workers in Philly as a whole, regardless of what field you’re in.
[00:52:04.14] – Adrienne Beckham
Do you feel… Does your organization, or the organizations that you’ve worked for had implicit or explicit rules that you feel like you have to conform to when it comes to how you present yourself within your job? How has that been affected by… How do you navigate that, in addition to also keeping your access needs in mind?
[00:52:05.19] – Bailey Gamberg
It’s definitely changed, depending on what organization I’ve been at. I think, at the brand-new one right now… I think with the brand-new one, because we’re also a conservancy, we have a lot of gardeners and other staff. There’s different levels of implicit dress code for people. The gardeners can wear whatever they want, because they are out in the field. As educators, we’re on the move a lot, moving art supplies and setting things up, so we can dress a little more casual than the development office does, the marketing, development, and the business admin-side dress more formal than we do, which is nice.
[00:52:06.19] – Bailey Gamberg
But I’ve been at institutions before where they’ve been strict about clothing, sending an e-mail at the end of the day of, “People should wear X, Y, Z,” and you’re like, “Well, I was wearing that today, so I guess that e-mail was directed towards me,” kind of situation. Those things that, it’s like, did really affect anyone’s productivity or mood during the day? It wasn’t anything offensive or something completely inappropriate.
[00:52:07.07] – Bailey Gamberg
I personally am very casual about it, I think, as long as you’re presentable. I’ve also struggled a lot with being non-binary and makeup in the workplace. There are places that I worked at that felt more formal, so I felt like I needed to have makeup on more regularly as someone who can be female-presenting. But if I’m feeling a little more masc—and I am gender-fluid in that sense—sometimes I dress more masc, and sometimes I dress more fem. And when I’m dressing more masc, I definitely don’t want to put makeup on, because that doesn’t feel like that fits with how I’m feeling. But then you’re struggling, because you’re like, “Do I look like I’m being a lazy woman who doesn’t put makeup to work, or am I feeling comfortable in my identity by dressing in this way?” That’s something I never got a direct commentary on, and it was just in my head.
[00:52:07.15] – Adrienne Beckham
Yeah, that’s it for today.
[00:52:08.20] – Bailey Gamberg
Awesome. Thank you for making an open and comfy space for me. I had a good time.
[00:52:09.24] – Adrienne Beckham
Good. Yeah, I’m really glad.
[00:52:10.24] – Bailey Gamberg
We’ll need to get coffee, or a drink or something outside of this, so I can learn more about you, too.
[00:52:11.12] – Adrienne Beckham
Yes. Like, absolutely.
[00:52:12.00] – Bailey Gamberg
I’ll come out of this, and you’ll be like, “I know Bailey’s life story down to the tee,” but I’m going like, “I know Adrienne’s from California, and…”
[00:52:12.13] – Adrienne Beckham
Yeah, you’re right. We’ll do a whole story swap, and I’ll be like, “All right. So this is my life…”
[00:52:13.01] – Bailey Gamberg
Like, “Here’s my life story…”
[00:52:13.13] – Adrienne Beckham
Yeah, all right. I’ll let you go for the rest of your Friday.
[00:52:14.01] – Bailey Gamberg
Bye, everyone.
[00:52:14.14] – Adrienne Beckham
Bye.
